General Discussion Forum

For all you 2 stroke fans out there, There is a must read artical in the july issue of MX Action. If you don't get it, Then spend the couple bucks to buy it! In short they explain why the 2 stroke is the best MX bike made and why. And why there not on the track now. And not only did they get with the head honchoes at AMA to ask why the 2 stroke can't up the displacment just to where the 450 is, But they built the bike with just a kit from max power. It's a YZ 285. And it can spank the 450. It's a better bike for the following reasons stated by them...HORSEPOWER.. A two stroke engine produces 0.2 horsepower per cubic centimeter , A YZ 250 makes 50 horsepower out of it's 250cc displacment. A four stroke only makes 0.12 horsepower per cubic cenimeter!..MOVING PARTS..Stripped to its essence, A 2 stroke has three moving parts ( crank,rod,and piston. A for stroke has FIVE times the moving parts and over 100 extra auxiliary parts!..WEIGHT.. A 2 stroke engine weighs 15 pounds less then a for stroke!..COST.. The rebuild cost of a 2 stroke $250, Is (5) times less then that of the 4 stroke $1250. And in the case of major malfunction, the re- build cost of a 2 stroke can be as much as 12 times less!.. PERFORMANCE..If you compare a 250cc two stroke to a 250cc 4 stroke, The 2 stroke is vastly superior. Making 33 percent more power (50) horsepower versus 35! With quicker rev, snappier powerband,simpler design and lower cost. Given these facts, You might be asking yourself, "If all this is true, Then why is everyone buying 4 strokes? And the awnser isn't what you think: And you have to read the rest. Now im not 4 stroke (BASHING) Just putting some good info out to those who wan't to know. These are from MX ACtion, Not me. but its a verry good artical and the YZ 285 looks nasty. And can be done easly. YZ WOODS>  

i love MXA, they are the smartest and most logical. they should be in charge of the AMA because they know what works and why. most every other mag just says that the testers didnt like this or that. MXA says that because the bikes frame has a bad head angle, it handles bad or something good like that. they know why bikes turn and why some dont, they know why some engines are fast and why others have troubles. i am getting back into 2 strokes and hope to buy one after this season of racing. 2 strokes are actually better than four strokes by a long ways, but not when they have double dispacement. thanks for posting this woods, that means my MXA will be here for sure today or tomorro. this is the mag i wait for every month. also, their articles never get old. anyone who races motocross or follows it shoud subscribe to this magazine. it is the best.  
2005 YZ250F
2006 RM250
Tragedy and hardship are the forge that produce men of steel

Yah, i get all mine around the same time, And i always read it first. Then dirt rider But yah, Out side of the displacment what is there? A heavy expensive street bike for the dirt. Let the 2 stroke move the displacment where the 4 stroke is and james will have a Big bore KX 250.  

i dont know about that, i think that bike is kinda bad. if you ever stop and watch one, the rider has to stomp his foot on the ground in almost every turn because the front end steps out so fast it is the only way to get it around turns. heck, you read MXA, you know what they say: a throwback to a bad era, requires too much work to go fast on, too much good fortune to get it around turns,too much antigravity matter to keep the rear suspension from pogoing, and too much money to bring it up to snuff. now, if bubba switched to Yamaha(or KTM or even Suzuki) and they allowed big bore 250's, well, thats a whole nother story. but i do believe bubba was the best two-stroke rider in history and that it suited him better than the 4 strokes. i miss his bubba scrubs from the two-stroke days. this is a Prime example of MXA telling the truth, as you can see it and try it out for youself on the bike if you dont believe it. i think its absolute bullcrap that it won the dirtrider shootout a few years ago. nothing but the suzook or yam should have won it for a long time.  
2005 YZ250F
2006 RM250
Tragedy and hardship are the forge that produce men of steel

Hey Bubba,177. Your right! And there is nothing that can prove different!! Ride both?  

2 strokes RULE!!  
www.xxSuperHeroxx.com

yes, i got my MXA today, but ill save the best for last and read the transworld first. i like it how you(woody) still call me bubba177 from the old(er) days. i cant wait till i get to that article. i always make myself read everything in order starting with jodys box so that i wont skip things and lose interest in the rest of the mag. yeah, but also in MXA they noted that it has a crappy clutch and has easy to bend rotors along with piston wear. ill stick with the WHY-ZE  
2005 YZ250F
2006 RM250
Tragedy and hardship are the forge that produce men of steel

Jodys box is really good this month.  

Yeah, I think the same thing. MXA is a great mag, I have digital subscription so I read a soon as it's ready to publish and thats really nice  
I love two strokes and I hope that they never dissappear. Maybe if they (the heads behind AMA) modify the rules to allow bigger 2 Strokes as they did with amateur 144 2 Strokes we'll see that sharp handling, low weight and quiker thottle response breathing fire at the front of the pack.  
My heart fires every cycle, so does my bike.

Well, Everything MXA said was true, very true, and I even like 2 strokes, but...

I will tell you why 4 strokes are better for MX. In a world where 125's go vs. 250f's and 250 2T's go against 450f's, they don't stand a chance. Sure its 90% rider, and that is why you see alot of lower level class riders on a 2 stroke beating 4 strokes. However, most times, if that rider jumped onto a 4 stroke, they would be even faster. Its just a fact that 4 strokes are easier to go fast on. But again, its really not fair, and don't blame the AMA, blame the environmentalists, and all those lame tree huggers.  

Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous.

well uh, i like to ride my dirt bike. cuz its fast. and goes high.............. lol. im just playin, idk, i have nothing against strokers i just prefer 4 strokes. if i was paying for my own machine, i would probobly have a stroker, but i am lucky enough to have all that taken care of for me. so i dont have to wory about it. well, id love to stay and chat yall, but i got finals to study for.  
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the EPA had nothing to do with it as they do not regulate closed course competition machines. the blame goes to Roger Decoster, Keith McCarty, Bruce Stjernstrom and Chuck Miller. as team managers and representatives on the AMA Advisory Board, they signed off on allowing Yamaha to race its hand-built, one-off, exotic YZ400 proto. Even worse, they were so sure that it would be a failure that they gave it an upper displacement limit of 550cc to race in the 250 class. Talk about shortsighted!! It wasn't until the damage was done that the AMA lowered the displacement to 450cc-which proved in hindsight way too much.

Finally, all fingers must point to the AMA. The only reason that James Stewart, Ricky Carmichael, Ryan Villopoto, Chad Reed and Davi Millsaps are racing four-strokes is because four-strokes are allowed to be 100% larger than a 125cc two-stroke and 80% larger than a 250cc two-stroke. Take that displacement advantage away and four-strokes would be relegated back to play bike status.  
2005 YZ250F
2006 RM250
Tragedy and hardship are the forge that produce men of steel

Well, actually, the EPA has everything to do with it.
They (EPA) are pushing all the manufactures to conform to much stricter pollutuion standards than the 2 strokes can abide by. Some hi-tech Marine engines and snowmobile engines have come up with a valve design to meet the requirements, but in a dirtbike, its not worth it. A 250F and a 250 2T are engines weigh the exact same, so adding a valving system to the 2 stroke would make any weight advantage go down the drain.
Oh yea, even if the 250f's had to race 250 2T's, I bet RV would still podium, even against the GOAT and JS.  

Coincidence is God's way of remaining anonymous.

the EPA cant do anything about 2 strokes dirtbikes because the majority are made for closed course competition. if they were so worried about pollution then think about all the gas thats wasted in NASCAR and drag racing and all those things. they cant do anything about closed course specific bikes. also in supercross, RV had 3rd fastest time at a lot of events against 450's. i dont know if he could do that well if he got a bad start though, because he would have to pull a start good enough to holeshot against other 250F's and that would probably be a top 8 start against 450's at best.  
2005 YZ250F
2006 RM250
Tragedy and hardship are the forge that produce men of steel

I agree its easier to go faster on a 4-stroke; but I hate it when when people say a 125 can't run with a 250F and a 250 can't run with a 450F like the 4-stroke makes better power.  It doesn't; it just has almost twice the displacement.  Put a 250F up against a 250 2-stroke to get a straight comparison.

If the manufacturers made a 300 or 350 2-stroke based on the 250 2-stroke frame/engine and it would be the 2-stroke on top.

The 4-strokes are fun and getting better; but they rule at the track because of the way the AMA (not EPA or anyone else) wrote the rules.

Its also interesting that now they want to limit the bikes to 350cc 4-strokes in Supercross.  Since the manufacturers aren't going to develope a 350cc Supercross only; if it passes then it will be 350cc all around.  Then the gap between 250 2-stroke won't be as much if at all.  
Dave H 2006 YZ250
(2008 YZ 125 son)